7.4 miles
Distance
1,956 ft
Climb
-1,975 ft
Descent
2,540 ft
High Point
This route is archived

2017 FWS - #4

Sign in at Fromme Parking Lot. 5:45pm to 6:45pm

Climb Mtn Hwy to Executioner

Stage 1 - Executioner - Ramble On

Transition - Climb D'Yer Maker - Mountain Hwy

Stage 2 - 7th Secret

Transition - Mountain Hwy

Stage 3 - Pipeline

Transition - Baden Powell

Detailed Description
2017 FWS - 4 is a 7 mile expert race route located near North Vancouver British Columbia. This mountain bike only route can be used one direction and has a moderate overall physical rating. This route includes 7 trails. This route climbs 1,956 ft with a max elevation of 2,540 ft then descends -1,975 ft.
Route Supporters
Local Trail Association
Local trail association
North Shore Mountain Bike Association (nsmba.ca)
Please consider joining or donating to the local riding association to support trail development & maintenance.
donate to earn trail karma!
Past Events

67 Reviews & Comments

  • + 1
provin1327 (Jul 26, 2022 at 14:28)
Rode this west to east after exiting Expresso and holy crap this trail has some technical and challenging sections! Although there are some traversing sections on this trail that are blue in difficulty overall it's a black, a pretty difficult black at that. It's fun and challenging but if you are an intermediate rider this trail will eat you alive and you'll probably be walking a chunk of it.
[Reply]
  • + 2
razzlebazzil SHORE CORPS (Jul 27, 2022 at 14:37)
You got it, it's the blackest blue trail on the shore! All I can say is you should have seen it 6 years ago. A few thousand hours over the last six years have gone into fixing up this section of trail. We haven't eliminated the gnar but there are some relatively smooth lines (albeit about 4" wide) through the rougher sections. This trail definitely helps folks progress!
[Reply]
  • + 0
CliffPhilpot (Jul 24, 2022 at 9:39)
Trail Executioner
Y you c tv cyg
[Reply]
  • + 0
maggiedurkin (Jun 20, 2022 at 22:03)
A bit of a surprise, a fun surprise, but after a pretty mellow traverse from expresso the trail changes it’s vibe quite drastically! Be prepared to ride through like 10 rock gardens. Very well put together rock gardens, but somewhat twisty rock gardens nonetheless. Helps to know what to expect! That being said still a great way to get back to the parking lot.
[Reply]
  • + 3
yourenglishisgood (Jun 4, 2022 at 23:42)
Trail Pipeline
A little narrow in spots on my modern trail limo but once you get a feel for it the trail flows beautifully. Boardwalks, teeters, small to medium rock faces, and creative stone work. A well preserved piece of shore history, and one of my all time favourite trails.
[Reply]
  • + 0
northshoregurl (May 30, 2022 at 1:23)
Trail 7th Secret
It is soooo worth the climb. What a sweet trail.
[Reply]
  • + 3
sdrvper HMBA (Apr 11, 2022 at 8:57)
Trail Pipeline
New woodwork is amazing. As a visitor, Pipeline was my favourite black diamond trail that I rode (between 7th, Expresso, floppy). Awesome trail.
[Reply]
  • + 3
SpecSRAM (Nov 8, 2021 at 10:42)
Ridden many times...decided to finally post a comment lol. I really only use BP to ride back out to the Upper Parking Lot and the final descent once you get past Big Stupid is no joke. You can create and carry some ridiculously fun speed down here. Be careful though, as hikers regularly use BP, both ways. You CAN get down the final descent in about 1:30, but your hands will not like it.
[Reply]
  • + 1
Jake451mx (Oct 19, 2021 at 12:53)
Trail 7th Secret
As above have mentioned great amount of effort with rock armouring to make this a true all weather trail credit to the builders, I favour pile of rocks for more natural rooty tech however
[Reply]
  • + 2
Jake451mx (Oct 12, 2021 at 15:51)
Rode a big portion of this trail west to east it was really fun recommend for riders who like tech up and downs and picking lines great to have something a little rougher next to some of the more well groomed berm trails- variety is the key-
[Reply]
  • + 1
Mcyeetus (Sep 25, 2021 at 16:40)
Trail 7th Secret
My favorite trail on fromme. Such a good mix of tech, features, and flow. Awesome trail worth the climb for sure!
[Reply]
  • + 3
colchilibeck (Aug 21, 2021 at 11:39)
Trail 7th Secret
Really amazing trail. I Ben in the wet there is still lots of grip.
A note to fast riders, don’t try passing slower riders while they are moving through techy/rocky steep turns. It ruins the experience when you bail because someone decides to blow by you. Just give a shout and pass when safe to do so!! We are all there to have fun. Keep those maneuvers for a race day!
[Reply]
  • + 1
zwass (Jul 15, 2021 at 12:34)
Trail D'Yer Mak'er
Definitely easier than a black as an uphill trail. Great uphill at that!
[Reply]
  • + 1
mario9000 (Jun 14, 2021 at 13:12)
Found a piece if wood with a 3" nail sticking up out of it on a bridge going eastward just before pipeline exit. Seemed to be placed there purposely. It has been disposed of now. I will upload an image.
[Reply]
  • + 2
razzlebazzil SHORE CORPS (Jun 15, 2021 at 10:45)
Thank you for taking care of that. I'll swing through and take a good look.
[Reply]
  • + 2
Wesmacaulay FVMBA - ADMIN (Jun 5, 2021 at 23:44)
Trail 7th Secret
Rock work is astonishing. I can’t even think of all the hours of work put into the construction of this trail. Epic.
[Reply]
  • + 1
Wesmacaulay FVMBA - ADMIN (Jun 5, 2021 at 21:09)
A decent but challenging traverse trail back from Espresso. Some of the steeps could be made a bit more ridable. The large rock gardens will be dangerous for many riders if it's wet. Only worth riding west to east.
[Reply]
  • + 0
adnauseam (Jun 4, 2021 at 20:31)
Trail Pipeline
Rode this today for the first time. Pumped to try the wood work, especially the horseshoe turn with the Teeter.. however we couldn't find it. Perhaps we missed a split in the trail? Still very fun with lots of proper jank near the bottom that's def challenging
[Reply]
  • + 2
liamdubs (Jun 6, 2021 at 8:25)
Trail Pipeline
its being redone, it's totally removed now.
[Reply]
  • + 0
octet (May 21, 2021 at 16:23)
Trail Pipeline
If whoever is rebuilding the woodwork on this needs help, I've time. I sent an email into the nsmba.
[Reply]
  • + 0
MTBaboon (May 7, 2021 at 9:52)
Trail Pipeline
This trail has probably the noisiest teeter totter ever.
[Reply]
  • - 1
kupos (May 2, 2021 at 16:33)
Trail Pipeline
Great fun trail if you prefer something techie. Kind of similar to 7th Secret but requires slightly more precise lines. Very fun scenic detour skinny!
[Reply]
  • + 0
liamdubs (Apr 19, 2021 at 20:17)
Trail Pipeline
They are totally redoing the iconic woodwork at the top of pipeline, its all gone now. The trail is still rideable and running good though.
[Reply]
  • + 1
heybmay (Apr 3, 2021 at 13:08)
Trail Pipeline
A step up in difficulty from Expresso but doable and got the adrenaline going.
[Reply]
  • + 0
kyleluvsdh (Feb 7, 2021 at 16:08)
Trail D'Yer Mak'er
Love the trail name, so Canadian haha
[Reply]
  • - 1
quithollerin (Jan 21, 2021 at 10:16)
Yup. I can honestly say that I'm over Baden. It's now just another fee to pay if you want to ride Expresso. Shaves some life off of your bike everytime you ride it.
[Reply]
  • + 3
98teg (Jan 4, 2021 at 22:27)
This was harder than floppy bunny and expresso
[Reply]
  • + 2
fiekaodclked (Dec 6, 2020 at 13:50)
Trail D'Yer Mak'er
Great climbing trail. Thanks to all the builders for their efforts! Keep up the good work!
[Reply]
  • + 1
ranchitup (Nov 23, 2020 at 21:53)
There are several sections on this trail that will f*ck a beginner up, especially in the wet. With that being said there are a few pretty fun sections on this trail and overall not terrible for a traverse.
[Reply]
  • + 3
darcraver (Nov 14, 2020 at 19:39)
The trail totally rocks! Should have seen it 10-15 years ago Smile Great progression trail after the warmup on Expresso. Unbelievable amount of work done on this trail the last few years to make it more blue like, but it keeps fighting back Smile
[Reply]
  • + 3
liamdubs (Aug 25, 2020 at 16:19)
Like everyone says, not a blue. This is some sort of a prank.
[Reply]
  • + 1
stereo87 (Aug 14, 2020 at 7:44)
Trail D'Yer Mak'er
Looking at how the trail development is progressing, next year it may be paved...
[Reply]
  • + 1
Dannyjean (Aug 3, 2020 at 11:50)
Trail 7th Secret
Absolute stellar trail. Worth that little extra climb FOR SURE
[Reply]
  • + 6
SeventhSecret (Apr 28, 2020 at 20:48)
Agree with the comments here -- this is by far the blackest blue trail anywhere on the North Shore. It tends to get pretty beaten up as well, and can get super-gnarly. There are several corners on the downhill section going East towards Mtn Highway (from Espresso / Pipeline, etc.), that are essentially steep rock gardens, and pretty slippery especially when they're wet. Not to mention the beginning of the downhill section... the mandatory steep ladder onto steep rock garden, with a slight left turn at the bottom, would be pretty intimidating, even for a black trail.
[Reply]
  • + 2
SpecSRAM (Nov 8, 2021 at 11:18)
Its a super fun thrill ride! Big Grin
[Reply]
  • + 1
the-dh-junkie (Feb 29, 2020 at 19:25)
Trail Pipeline
Very challenging, compared to expresso this feels like a double black
[Reply]
  • + 1
intox (Nov 9, 2019 at 14:48)
Trail Pipeline
Just after the teeter and leading out of the hairpin, there is a broken support on one side of the ladder. On Nov 8th it was marked with 2 branches in an X. Careful.
[Reply]
  • + 0
YukonSean (Aug 26, 2019 at 0:37)
Trail Pipeline
Classic!! Awesome tech trail with some cool board walks
[Reply]
  • + 3
B-Rough (Aug 16, 2019 at 20:46)
Similar to many of the comments above I took this trail as a connector from Expresso. This trail did surprise me as due to the rock paths they have created (I think for hikers) it is actually pretty challenging, definitely harder than Expresso in my view.
[Reply]
  • + 1
bboyshredder (Jul 16, 2019 at 8:57)
Trail 7th Secret
Awesome rocky trail . worth the climb , but some berms are beat up.
[Reply]
  • + 3
JemSamonte (May 7, 2019 at 21:16)
Rode this trail after trying Expresso the 2nd time. Was very technical for me but was really fun. Walked most of the uphill part and some sketchy descent. You just have to be mindful since a lot of hikers are on this trail as well. Will definitely try again this weekend after pipeline or expresso.
[Reply]
  • + 6
andreyapopov (Mar 28, 2019 at 13:44)
This is NOT a blue trail; it should be marked as black diamond. I ride blue trails almost exclusively with couple black ones thrown in, and this one is by far the hardest I've done. There are some "black" trail in Squamish and Seymour that are easier than this one.
[Reply]
  • + 5
andreyapopov (Mar 28, 2019 at 13:48)
In fact, Expresso - black rated trail - is much easier than this one.
[Reply]
  • + 3
Edu888 (Jan 27, 2019 at 16:16)
Took the trail to go back to the parking lot after Espresso and I can safely say that this trail is significantly harder. Super steep rocky climbs lead to super steep rocky descents. The descents are really fun though.
[Reply]
  • + 1
crashelman (Sep 14, 2018 at 11:28)
Trail Pipeline
A bit more challenging than expresso? Steeps a bit steeper. Iconic raised boardwalk with teeter totter and hairpin
[Reply]
  • + 0
crashelman (Sep 14, 2018 at 11:25)
Trail 7th Secret
Awesome trail in wet weather! Epic amount of armour and nothing too sketchy. Great start to Crinkum and Kirkford
[Reply]
  • + 4
JacksonThack (Jul 30, 2018 at 8:56)
This trail is exceptionally technical with massive uphill rock gardens, steep stairs, and not much fun for me as an intermediate rider
[Reply]
  • + 0
georgeshumway (Jun 30, 2018 at 20:00)
Trail 7th Secret
Anyone know how this trail compares in terms of difficulty with expresso?
[Reply]
  • + 5
nwareing (Jan 26, 2019 at 18:08)
Trail 7th Secret
Expresso is easier
[Reply]
  • + 0
MKBERGEY1 (Jun 28, 2018 at 14:01)
Trail 7th Secret
7th is running so sweet ! ????????
[Reply]
  • - 2
Arzt506 (Jun 4, 2018 at 19:23)
Trail D'Yer Mak'er
This is a damn incredible trail. The roots are a beast to clean. So challenging. Also feels like you’re on an alien planet movie set. Super rad.

New work at the top is top notch
[Reply]
  • + 4
KevinStafford (Apr 4, 2018 at 6:27)
Yeah, that was the blackest blue I've ever ridden. However, I had a great time rolling those steps and re enforced stone descents back to parking. Great trail in its own right.
[Reply]
  • + 0
martywis (Mar 27, 2018 at 22:00)
Trail Pipeline
Good comment the last one!
[Reply]
  • + 3
konarider112 (Mar 16, 2018 at 20:55)
This is the hardest blue trail I’ve ever ridden. Especially east to west; I had to push my bike.
[Reply]
  • + 2
chris-mcintyre (Sep 24, 2017 at 16:44)
Trail 7th Secret
One of the most if not the most amazing trail on the mountain! Definitely worth going up and shredding all the way down to Kirkford! This trail is a must when visiting Mt. Fromme!
[Reply]
  • + 3
Ledski (Aug 16, 2017 at 19:30)
Much harder than expected and quite challenging to ride east to west. Quite technical.
[Reply]
  • + 2
Ledski (Aug 16, 2017 at 19:29)
Trail 7th Secret
Accessible North Shore style trail that flows well through its fortified rocky technical sections. Really well built and loads of fun.
[Reply]
  • + 8
darcraver (Jul 24, 2017 at 14:26)
Trail Pipeline
"Considered one of the easier North Shore trails". Maybe 10-15 years ago...
[Reply]
  • + 5
leelau (Jun 4, 2016 at 20:17)
Trail D'Yer Mak'er
A note to uphill climbers that a large chunk of this trail was used as a downhill route in the past and will likely be used by downhillers in the future. Keep your heads up going both ways
[Reply]
  • - 4
Arzt506 (Jun 4, 2018 at 19:22) (Below Threshold) show comment
Trail D'Yer Mak'er
Bud - this is an uphill only trail. Do you ever post anything without an agenda against the trailbuolding efforts of the nsmba? Never met you but you seem a bit obsessive and paranoid.
[Reply]
  • + 4
leelau (Jun 4, 2018 at 20:23)
Trail D'Yer Mak'er
Do you know the history of this trail? Ie that this was a downhill trail? I've never met you but you seem to read things the wrong way.
[Reply]
  • - 4
Arzt506 (Jun 4, 2018 at 22:10) (Below Threshold) show comment
Trail D'Yer Mak'er
Sure. Doesn’t matter to me dude. I’m just saying it’s a great effort they did to turn this into a climbing trail. It is seriously kickass and a great xc climb option on fromme. Nobody cares that it used to be a DH trail - there are millions of better ones. People don’t ride this down anymore so your comment just seems like you’re tryig to undermine the work to turn this into a climb trail.
[Reply]
  • + 4
leelau (Jun 4, 2018 at 23:21)
Trail D'Yer Mak'er
Your opinion is irrelevant and you don't know what you're talking about. You're either Podo or a trained seal or some one else who drank a lot of koolaid. People ride down this trail whatever you think
[Reply]
  • - 4
Arzt506 (Jun 5, 2018 at 16:36) (Below Threshold) show comment
Trail D'Yer Mak'er
Bro. Chill with your fake accounts downvoting my comments and upvoting yours. It’s just a trail. Don’t get all agro because you can’t clean it up hill in less than an hour.

Chill brother. We’re just riding bikes.
[Reply]
  • + 5
j-tommy (Mar 22, 2015 at 16:54)
Trail 7th Secret
Beauty of a trail! First ride today, my first ride on the Shore... and it lived up to the hype. Even got to meet Pete, who I understand is the master builder on this beauty. The rock work is amazing! It was pretty busy up there, but everyone was in a good mood and very friendly. Overall a great ride.
[Reply]
Below threshold threads are hidden
Deleted threads/comments are hidden





Trails in Route

Details

  • Race Course
  • Riding area
  • Primary Activity
    Mountain Bike
  • AKA
    nsmba fiver, FWS, Fiver World Series
  • Difficulty rating
    Black Diamond
  • Route Type
    Loop
  • Bike type
    AM
  • Direction
    One Direction
  • Physical rating
    Moderate
  • Ridelogs
    90
More Stats for 2017 FWS - 4 mountain bike route
  • Altitude min
    1,061 ft
  • Altitude start
    1,158 ft
  • Altitude end
    1,138 ft
  • Grade
    -0.1%
  • Grade max
    -74.9%
  • Grade min
    41.8%
  • Distance climb
    5 miles
  • Distance down
    3 miles
  • Distance flat
    177 ft
no votes yet
close
3D
Trail Conditions
  • Unknown
  • Snow Groomed
  • Snow Packed
  • Snow Covered
  • Snow Cover Inadequate
  • Freeze/thaw Cycle
  • Icy
  • Prevalent Mud
  • Wet
  • Variable
  • Ideal
  • Dry
  • Very Dry
Trail Flow (Ridden Direction)
Trailforks scans users ridelogs to determine the most popular direction each trail is ridden. A good flowing trail network will have most trails flowing in a single direction according to their intension.
The colour categories are based on what percentage of riders are riding a trail in its intended direction.
  • > 96%
  • > 90%
  • > 80%
  • > 70%
  • > 50%
  • < 50%
  • bi-directional trail
  • no data
Trail Last Ridden
Trailforks scans ridelogs to determine the last time a trail was ridden.
  • < 2 days
  • < 1 week
  • < 2 weeks
  • < 1 month
  • < 6 months
  • > 6 months
Trail Ridden Direction
The intended direction a trail should be ridden.
  • Downhill Only
  • Downhill Primary
  • Both Directions
  • Uphill Primary
  • Uphill Only
  • One Direction
Contribute Details
Colors indicate trail is missing specified detail.
  • Description
  • Photos
  • Description & Photos
  • Videos
Trail Popularity ?
Trailforks scans ridelogs to determine which trails are ridden the most in the last 9 months. Trails are compared with nearby trails in the same city region with a possible 25 colour shades. Think of this as a heatmap, more rides = more kinetic energy = warmer colors.
  • most popular
  • popular
  • less popular
  • not popular
ATV/ORV/OHV Filter
Max Vehicle Width
inches

Radar Time
x Activity Recordings
Trailforks users anonymized public ridelogs from the past 6 months.
  • mountain biking recent
  • mountain biking (>6 month)
  • hiking (1 year)
  • moto (1 year)
Activity Recordings
Trailforks users anonymized public skilogs from the past 12 months.
  • Downhill Ski
  • Backcountry Ski
  • Nordic Ski
Jump Magnitude Heatmap
Heatmap of where riders jump on trails. Zoom in to see individual jumps, click circles to view jump details.
Trails Deemphasized
Trails are shown in grey.
disable
Only show trails with NO bikes.
enable

Save the current map location and zoom level as your default home location whenever this page is loaded.

Save
Trail transparency
676
410
1,222 | 1 faves
385
youtuber We Raced on Wet Skinnies - The Most UNIQUE...
We Raced on Wet Skinnies - The Most UNIQUE Enduro Race?!
trail: 7th Secret
14:16 | 89 | comments: 0 | favs:
Aug 25, 2022
So many rocks!! | Mt. Fromme
So many rocks!! | Mt. Fromme
trail: 7th Secret
9:12 | 23 | comments: 0 | favs:
Sep 7, 2022

Recent Trail Reports Along Route

statustraildateconditiondescription
Pipeline
Oct 2, 2022 @ 7:11pm
Oct 2, 2022
Broken slat on older wood bridge before new woodwork
Baden Powell (Fromme Section)
Sep 26, 2022 @ 9:56pm
Sep 26, 2022
Fixed upper ramp on Stairs of Despair
reporter
7th Secret
Sep 26, 2022 @ 2:49pm
Sep 26, 2022
Dry and loose
Ramble On
Sep 14, 2022 @ 11:43am
Sep 14, 2022
D'Yer Mak'er
Sep 14, 2022 @ 11:43am
Sep 14, 2022
more reports »
  • By shirk-007 NSMBA & contributors
  • #4640 - 1,883 views
  • flag
  • login to download gpx or kml files.